We're not Negative Enough

Peter Rollins is evidently a Christian progressive [sic] speaker/ writer/ preacher(?), whose videos and blog I recently encountered. Very interesting.

He has a thought-provoking post about Always Complaining? Then try Being more Negative. This caused me to think and dive into the topic, so I commented and then put together this full-blown [you might say, overblown . . .] response.

Eternal Complaints or Eternal Purposes?

Sometimes people think that my work leads to a form of negativity in which we find ourselves lost in a sea of melancholia. The death of the idea that there is something that can render us whole and satisfied sounds, for some, like it sustains and supports a type of eternal complaint against life. But the point is the dialectic opposite: those who constantly complain about their lives are not too negative, rather they have failed to be negative enough. To clarify, I am talking here of a type of negativity that is insatiable. The type of negativity found in those who are never able to enjoy their existence, regardless of what happens.

   Read it all here

I think in Pete's post and the comments following, we are only talking about life here "as we know it", confined within what I call the "cosmic-fishbowl." There are other dimensions to life that give a larger context. We are all stuck within what we call the Universe/the world, whatever -- and if that's ALL there is, then I agree at face-value with the post:

The individual who is able to loose themselves from the notion that there is some ultimate purpose to their life frees themselves from the negative melancholy that comes with being unable to find that purpose (or the naïve optimism that comes from thinking that they will).

(This does seem on further thought to echo the sentiments of eastern/ Buddhist philosophy, not biblical faith) which is a separate topic. . .

But, the other point to be made is that if there IS any purpose, it is only to be found *Outside* of earthly existence. I don't think it's naive to want/believe you have a purpose, only if you think that by self-discovery it can be done. And that's the point of Jesus and the cross.  

What we do here, how we live and love, does matter! But it doesn't "affirm the world", or anymore free us by "acts that enact liberation" - from the confines of our Fishbowl-like existence.

So, as TokenChristian has said it:

"No human being can ever be totally free. We can rebel. We can distribute power. We can abolish property and state. But no human being will ever be totally free from domination. This is the point of permanent revolution."

SO, elections in USA [where I am] for Change & Hope, people's choices/decisions, that inane+criminal Guy Fawlkes anarchy group in UK, etc. -- they are not negative enough! They all still presume that We as humans, somehow can do Anything to change life?!! But what good is "permanent revolution" either? It too is all Vanity, if that's all there is. [ Ecclesiastes.]

Yes I agree that We are the Problem. But God?

References to Job, rebellion continuing, Mr.TokenChristianity:

"Just like every single other person in this world, you are responsible for the violence, the hate, and the oppression. God will not answer your prayers, God will not save you in your time of trouble, and God will mock your calamity.  . . .Whether it be by the trampling seas, the wails of battle, or through pestilence and age: God will smite you down."

(Photo credit: prettywar-stl

 I don't believe these are the lessons to be learned here. "God will smite you down." HA - the meaning of "smite" is very interesting! Connected to "being smitten", which of course has connotation to being overcome - with intense loving feelings - in love - desiring intimacy. . . that God would ravish us! [ some British poet maybe said this? ]

What are the Real Questions?

Again from Mr.Token:

"Camus once put it this way: the only real serious philosophical question is whether one should kill one’s self or not. That is the essence of permanent revolution. Through rebellion you promote God’s Cause."

NO, the only Real Ques. is really: WHY am I here, and even having the question WHY? -- since no matter what, I live, I die or I rebel, I can't change Anything! But if you are dead, you cant then take "responsibility" to make up for your part in the horrors of the world, can you? [DUH]

". . . I mean faith for me means rebelling against the horrors of this world. Because that’s what I think it means to be a Christian. I’m in pursuit of a world where people will come to love one another as Jesus taught."

And what odd idea is this, that "rebellion" promotes God's cause? Rebellion or slavery- neither one advances anything! Utopianism, and even responsibility for being part of the problem VS. part of the solution--  it's all not enough. We're all still prisoners of humanness-- Who can set us free from our earthly bondage of sin and death?
 
Nate is another commenter, he refers to songs of Bob Dylan. I like his parallels here about our limitations and longings.

Cover of Time Out of Mind [Vinyl]

"Time Out of Mind" seems to be about this tipping point between the depressive melancholy of always chasing the horizon and the negativity you speak of here–that which leads into full embrace of the world. [ His songs bear] striking resemblence to the book of Ecclesiastes where it is said  “He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also, he has put eternity [hebrew "olam"] into man’s heart, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end.”  (Dylan also has a song "Chasing the Horizon", on “Modern Times”)

. . . the ongoing theme, to my ears, is this idea of being in love with the unattainable, [ in this life.]  There is a lot of sadness, regret, and anger. . .  regrets about what he has done to others while chasing it (see the video for Duquesne Whistle), and a renewed energy to, in love, embrace the world fully in the time he has left.

  This speaks to our longing to live free beyond our physical confines- to finally discover and know the amazing creation that God has produced, with so much of it's physical and spiritual vastness still unknown, and out of reach, to us. 

Deep Negativity gets us Outside of Ourselves

MY TAKE:  There is No Freedom apart from God, who Alone is Outside of time & space [ and any other multi-layered dimensional realities of ] existence. There I said it. EveryThing, EveryOne else is confined to a closed system of life, how ever you define it. To have this realization is not ultra-negativity, but gives me hope from outside myself.

True faith connects us with the Outside, though we still live here, and now we work here (not rebel) to re/create & renew life. No offense, but don't believers know and teach this? Isn't this Christianity101 ?

Diagram of chair layout for a fishbowl conversation setup, with room for 168 in the audience, and 4 or 5 in the fishbowl.  (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

To me, unbelief *masks* negativity that has not been fully acknowledged, maybe the point of Peter's post. What it means to be a Christian is: to be connected to Jesus-God, not be in pursuit of anything else here, however noble.

Each person has to come to a more "deeply negative" place about the end of themselves and this life, BEFORE real change can happen.

Can I Pray 4 U ?

Prayer on the Internet - is it something you regularly do? How does someone worship God at their computer? Are there trustworthy resources for prayer and spirituality on the Web?

It seems many blogs and websites supposedly intended for prayer are either advocating "world prayer" or some other New Age cult or mystic religion, rather than directed to Christ for Christians. Or there is a definite slant toward certain doctrines or particular churches.

I have wanted to find places that enhance my devotional life, that aren't a membership or church site, and would help Christians to focus on our prayer-life.

So after some long time considering this, I have decided to get a prayer website running. My hope for this is to offer a space where people can consider various ways to pray, and deepen their relationship with God in multifaceted ways. I have studied the Bible to get a larger understanding of the what, whys, and how of prayer, but I myself still have a lot to learn and put into practice. :)

So this website will not be a definitive destination by any means! Hopefully just an additional resource and perspective for Christians to post prayer requests, questions, learn of ways to pray they might not have considered, etc.

As a work in progress, the site: ipray4.net is not birthed yet. But I have been working out some general concepts for theme and format.

Jesus tells us that to truly honor and serve God we should be about Loving God -- with "all your heart, all your soul, with all your mind and strength. And love your neighbor as yourself. On these rest all the Law and the Prophets. . ."

. . .to be continued. . .

Worship and Music, Pt. 2

In my earlier post, I talked about problems of Feelings, Flow and Focus.

Since in my first career I have been a practicing church musician, this post continues with issues of faith that I have worked on for decades.

Over at In a mirror, dimly a good post about a Brent Helming worship article. For several years, the "emerging church" has been cutting the edge on Christian worship expression, music and "programming". The background model had been put in motion by Willow Creek, where Bill Hybels is now rethinking some of their operating tenets. The current fads are stemming from "Purpose-Driven Church" ideas by Rick Warren, and many other (now Gen X-Y ) writers.


It's too late to Eradicate the Roots of Consumerism.

Again from the article:
" ...(then) consumeristic worship will have a hard time taking hold.
I’m not sure that we’ll be able to fully eradicate consumerism from
our churches, but a deeper, more fully enriched relationship with God
through the vehicle of worship awaits those who say yes to pursuing
authentic worship. "

Don't get me wrong - I love fresh new types of music and expression.


Creativity should be welcomed and explored. But true creativity in worship will go beyond accepted norms, even of the latest contemporary mentality and prevalent style. The problems with modern music go deeper than just personal preferences and expression. Even worship music comes from within a larger warped culture.

The modern styles of worship music are intrinsically consumerist because that's the orientation of the music styles they are based on. Popular, rock, alternative, even "folk" musics are all rooted in the entertainment mentality. In the 1920's-50's the problem was with classical, operatic, theatrical styles: the danger was idolatry in the form of intellectualism and snobbery. Today the idolatry is with emotionality and populism.

It's too late to eradicate the roots of consumerism. Our culture has now accepted the idea of music being a consumer "product" - a thing bought and sold, watched, used, appreciated. And "consumer" usually means "spectator". All this is false.

Music should be instead, an "activity" - a way of involvement - an engagement of social participation - a vehicle of enjoyment, yes, but of an active, visceral encounter among participants. An invisible "glue"that embodies the invisible Bond of the Spirit amongst believers.

The best of secular entertainment does this; and all the audience screaming and so-called singing with the band, is more about being involved than it is about "the music".

This is not a style issue, it is an attitude issue. It might call for training, encouragement,
humility to accept unfamiliar forms or methods, and discerning leadership to navigate through the minefields of popularity, personal preference, or WNDITWB [the seven last words of the church before it dies. . .]

Think of how these attitudes would change the dynamic in worship,
the actions we partake in, the celebration of our fellowship in Christ and in Communion! We would sing and shout to be included in the action, no matter if we did or didnt have talent, even if that were not our personal "gift".


What do we really Intend Worship to be?


A church that really wanted to be radical in intentional worship would not have a "platform", but would abolish the stage and presentation-orientation altogether.

Perhaps meet in a storefront or a bare open space, with only chairs, tables, and strong physical symbols of important issues of faith; including some visual and aural expressions of faith.

Perhaps sit facing each other, centered on a pulpit for the Word preached and heard; or maybe focus on a communion table with the congregation gathered around.

Perhaps allow and expect believers to contribute through sharing, personal witness, Bible passages and life-lessons what God is doing in and through them the past week, etc. -- and inviting the congregation to reinforce this through their own participation in spoken prayer, singing and reading scripture in response.

Perhaps abolishing the seeker /spectator model altogether, in favor of the humble needy / participant role-model instead!

[ See this recent article after this was written, and the original blog post.]

That would shock unbelievers - first, because they expect everything to be done for them, that they can just come and look on; and second, it might challenge their complacency about "having faith" versus the supernatural reality of Jesus' presence in our lives.

A church radically centered around the Lord's Supper?


Unbelievers would say "they worship and eat the very body and blood of this man" they worship! Whoa, talk about cutting to the heart of the matter!
That would be in your face about who this Jesus really is, and who I am in relationship to him. Hmmm.

Is our worship and our faith more than just outward actions - does our commitment to Christ go deeply enough physically, emotionally, intellectually? Is it really tangible in our lives? The Lord's Supper is only one tangible symbol of showing the deep interaction between
God and humankind, through Christ. There can be other actions and symbols that reveal this as well, but they cannot replace this vital participation "in the death and resurrection of our Lord."

Is Jesus seen in us?

When we meet, are we together
a visible expression of his Body?

Do we show Christ in us,
the Hope of glory -

or does the world
just see:
[ Us ]
doing "our" thing "for God" ?

Consumer Worship and Worship Music

[ A discussion dear to my heart, though nothing to do with business. Since in my first career I have been a practicing church musician, this post deals with issues of faith that I have worked on for decades. (Ouch!) Still no resolutions, but resolute determination to remain faithful and serve joyfully wherever worship of Jesus can be encouraged through my calling. ]

Over at In a mirror, dimly a good post about a Brent Helming worship article. For several years, the "emerging church" has been cutting the edge on Christian worship expression, music and "programming", so these issues have been tossed around within that part of the Body as well as in more traditional arenas.


Paul Hawke writes:

I was talking with a friend who described artists who paint during a worship service. They are inspired by the music, about the presence of God that they are feeling, and they paint as a way to express this. There are other churches where people wave flags and banners as a form of worship. Neither activity sits well with me and I think I have understood why.

Helming’s article talked about a “misdirected attention“, saying “in our brokenness and humanness, we can easily misplace the deep affections and emotions that music (even worship music) stirs in us. When this occurs during worship, we often end up focused on objects other than God”

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Misdirected Attention: We're "not focused on God."

I do think in addition to music per se, there are other issues at work, that these guys are only slightly touching on.

These are:

• expression is not= worship;
• feelings is not= worship;
• worship is a corporate act of the Body gathered in a "worship service";
• the difference between passive and active participation.

I am amazed at the example of painting (however large or small) in a worship service. I am a composer, so this would be something like me working on writing an orchestra piece in notation, while watching a video of the Gospel of John, for instance. This is "using" God for inspiration and expression, it is not something that others can be active in together.

The act of creating is not Corporate worship; the finished art could be!

I can imagine verbal glossolalia spinning out-of-control into all
kinds of worship "acts". We could have painters, dancers, jugglers, rappers, cartoonists, godly sign-dancers, puppeteers and Gospel mimes all doing their thing(s) at once: so the rest of us can divert our attention to and fro, and enjoy their inspired expression before God -

>> if what's valuable is the believer's individual expression!

This confuses the expression idea with the individualism of our day.

And it confuses spiritual gifts, talents, and communication styles
with worship action! "Let all things be done for edification"

>> not for the benefit of my personal relationship with God. . .

The idea about the Flow of Emotions in worship has problems.

Worship is not about feelings. Worship is about an intentional
commitment to give ourselves to God and put our faith in him into
living practice. It's about rehearsing our life with him, so that all
of our lives become transformed through his Holy Spirit in us.

So we use forms of spiritual growth and worship practice in order to
nurture our faith and witness. And these can be "old forms" that have
shown proven spiritual benefit. If we only choose to use forms that
we can (easily) relate to, with immediate appeal, etc. - isn't that
expecting God to commune with us on our terms?

How small is your god
that he only reaches you through
"the deep affections and emotions
that music stirs in us" and
"the engaging melodies of our
favorite songs"?


We also confuse feelings and participation in our worship.

As Brent Helming also says: It is this type of misdirected attention that nurtures a “consumeristic worship” mindset by creating the impression that the time of worship is simply an enjoyable music event (the “show”) instead of a life giving interaction with Creator God.

True worship is a 2-way street, with times of listening, response, revelation and outward action. Some moments God speaks to us; sometimes we speak to God or to each other. This "speaking" is not always in verbal or physical expression. But if we aren't each actively involved, are we really worshiping?

If I don't pray when we are led in prayer, am I worshiping? If I don't sing when we are called to sing, am I worshiping? If however I do everything together with everyone else, just like they do, but my heart is not in it, am I worshiping? Of course not.

I would say that technically, when we listen to a teaching or a sermon,
during that we may not be worshiping either. (I'm thinking here of those "messages" that are really all about us and our needs, not so much what God has to say to us. You know you've heard a lot of these. . .) We are receiving the Word from God, so in a way we are passive, but supposedly openly receptive. We should be engaged at least spiritually, if not always emotionally or intellectually. [I get bored with talking just like the next guy. . .]

So the amount of our physical engagement can vary, but each "action" in
worship is an opportunity to deepen our relationship with God and
each other. It's both/and when it comes to individual/group worship involvement.

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